One of the quirks that is never covered in the schools or pamphlets, it is something that I covered earlier this year simply to open other's eyes.
A story mentioned in passing to me earlier today brought an interesting question as a possible response to this unpleasant facet of our profession.
NORTH HIGHLANDS, Calif. -- A shootout in the Sacramento suburbs has left a pharmacy worker dead and police hunting for two drugstore robbers.
Sacramento County Sheriff's Department spokesman Sgt. Tim Curran says two men walked into a Rexall pharmacy Thursday afternoon and demanded drugs.
Curran said the robbers and an armed employee began firing at each other in the store in a chaotic gun battle that continued into the parking lot. He said investigators are still trying to sort out who fired first.
The sheriff's department says a 27-year-old pharmacy employee died after being shot in the chest. Curran says a 37-year-old employee who was eight months pregnant was shot in the foot.
The employee involved in the shooting was not injured.
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/03/AR2010090305519.html
The initial thought may be to applaud the pharmacy worker for not taking the situation lying down... until you considered the lives lost.
After discussing the article, naturally the debate evolved to questioning the validity of a conceal and carry permit being employed in a pharmacy for protection.
Here I shall offer a bit of a disclaimer: I have no problem with the second amendment and all the rights it bestows. If the Constitution said that it was okay for people to walk around wearing chicken suits and flinging shit at each other, I would accept it and move on with my life.
This isn't intended to be a public service announcement.
Now some of the statements made alluded to the fact that it is too bad more places do not allow such permits to be invoked while working in a pharmacy. Obviously the logic being that the profession could be dangerous at times and we should have a chance to protect ourselves.
My initial logic is a resounding no.
First off, we are deemed professionals by the schools we intended, our peers and even by the government. We do not cover a course studying Rambo in our schooling. Additionally we have a duty to protect our patients and, I would think, a situation like this would fall under that oath. And I do not think putting their lives in harm's way anymore than they already are is a wise idea.
Second, pharmacies are usually a fairly small and confined areas. The person in question is probably already nervous and is most likely bluffing (even the most whacked out of methhead's are going to realize it will be difficult to get away with shooting someone in a public pharmacy).
By threatening back you are effectively kicking the situation up a notch and perhaps making said person panic. The vast majority of the time I hear of shootings in a pharmacy, it is due to someone trying to be a hero and antagonizing the situation.
Plus there is also the risk of giving said person the option of yet another weapon if things go even more wrong.
I've been in this situation. It's not fun and it's more stressful than most of you can imagine. With adrenalin running, you do jump into survival mode and almost run on autopilot.
I completely get the part.
What I don't get is the logic behind going this route. A woman... no, a co-worker is dead and another pregnant co-worker is injured because someone decided to fight back and one could argue that part of the reason for this is the actions of the co-worker. You have no idea if the criminal in question is merely pushing buttons or if they actually have the ability to take a life. Surprisingly, most do not have the power to do so unless pushed.
Plus, it's one thing if it's just you and the criminal, but it is another thing when you are endangering those around you.
My question is if there are any other thoughts about this? I may have completely missed the point on this or I could be completely in the right.
I honestly don't know.
9 comments:
Have you heard about the pharmacist in Oklahoma City that killed one of the kids that was attempting to rob his store at gunpoint? He's now on trial for murder. Apparently once you shoot the robber in the head, you're not supposed to empty your clip into him.
http://feeds.newsok.tv/services/player/bcpid66319854001?bctid=24432753001
The link is to the surveillance video that recorded the whole thing. They've been dragging ass on this case for awhile now so there are a lot of irrelevant details in this article. While I absolutely see the point that he didn't HAVE to shoot him more than once, I don't blame the guy.
Yes, I do see your point about protecting the public and not making an already unstable situation worse. I've always said if some guy with a gun came to the hospital, I'd help him load the Pyxis into his car if it meant he didn't hurt anybody. But we're not only charged with taking care of the patient, but also with taking care of the public. Allowing narcotics to be distributed to the dregs of society doesn't sit well with most of us, especially the old guys that have seen it all, heard it all, and just don't give a shit anymore about working out some ethical argument while their inventory is forcibly removed at gunpoint, probably not for the first time.
Apologies for the rambling, but as many of us know, after awhile people stop being people and are simply humans with letters. This one has CHF, this one has DM, that one has ALD, that one has COPD. Some fuckhead that waves a gun in my face and in the face of everything I've (we've) worked for is less than human.
With that being said, I don't think that we have an OBLIGATION to take out a threat, even to protect patients trying on cheap eyeglasses or playing with the BP machine when some crackhead comes in with a gun. But I don't think it's any more dangerous than having a gun in your home. If you know how to use (and not use it) safely, it can save your life.
Overall I agree with your mindset here. I'd much rather see the robber run off with all the drugs he wants then get involved in a gunfight. Nonetheless, you made a statement I strongly disagree with:
"A woman... no, a co-worker is dead and another pregnant co-worker is injured because someone decided to fight back."
What a ridiculous way to look at the situation. The reason someone died that day is because some crackhead decided he was willing to threaten others lives to get his fix. If I thought my life or the life of others was legitimately in danger, I'd be willing to do something about it. It's easy for you to sit back and critique someone from the comfort of your computer, but in that situation you don't know what the outcome will be. Druggies will (and often do) kill for no logical reason. It's almost like you're assuming the drug seeker will be rational.
My point is, you can't generalize what the response to this situation should be. God forbid I ever face that decision, but I will fight back if I believe my life is in serious danger, and I would be completely justified in doing so.
Anon @ 9:12 PM
You are completely correct in your statement there and I will go back and reword it. That was not really how I intended it to come across.
A little bit of additional info though, I have pretty detailed information of over a dozen robberies over the past five years. By detailed, I mean I know the pharmacy in question and the people involved.
In only one instance was the person in question an actual druggie looking to score something. Usually what they do is send in someone lower on the totem pole (or in my case, a girl who owed a sizable debt) to do the job. They don't really have a vested self-interest in the crime aside from making sure they satisfy whoever is in charge of them.
Thought I would throw that out there.
Police always advise anyone who is being robbed at gunpoint to just cooperate and give the bad guy whatever he wants. You have a better chance of survival. Keeping in mind that we may not know the full story here (who shot first, etc.) I would tend to agree that an employee producing a gun is going to exacerbate the situation and cause panic in a stupid criminal. The chances of someone getting hurt go way up. But, I recognize it's a tough situation. What a terrible tragedy for these employees.
I have been robbed twice working overnights for Oxycontin. Once with a note, once with a handgun laid on the counter. My decision was to go to the safe, grab a handful of bottles, and get the robbers the hell out of the store without anyone getting hurt. I suffered tremendous guilt after both, especially the one with the note, that the drugs now out on the street would hurt someone. But I know I made the right choice, and any deaths resulting from the drugs were on the committers of the crime, not me. Acting like a "hero" may have resulted in myself or someone getting hurt, and it just wasn't worth it.
I don't wish that situation on anyone. I had nightmares and was very jumpy at work whenever anyone remotely sketchy (which was a fair amount of my overnight clientele) approached my counter in the wee hours of the morning. I'm glad I work days now.
I'm just wondering how many readers would have thought differently of this story if the criminal had been shot dead in the parking lot, while everyone else made it out safe without even so much as an injury. Sometimes it is a fine line between heroism and trajedy.
I have been robbed once at gunpoint and it wasn't a pleasant experience. Knowing that your life is potentially in the hands of some shithead that is just trying to make a quick score is about the least fun emotion you can think of in my opinion. You feel hopeless and out of control.
I was lucky in that no one was hurt in the incident I was involved in and the robber did get caught later and was arrested. He had robbed other pharmacies and a movie theater as well.
One thing I will say is this: I now believe in firearms for personal protection. The police can't get to a scene fast enough to save you if you are in trouble and someone that has a gun is coming after you. Having said that I don't ever carry at work although I think it should be allowed. If you are a citizen that obeys the laws of this country and you go through the proper procedure to get a carry permit in your state then by all means I think you should be able to protect yourself. And don't get me started on gun control. Criminals don't care about laws and rules and regulations. That is why they are called criminals!
We live in a dangerous world and criminals seem to be the only ones that have rights anymore. There are people that truly don't care about others or human life and will do anything to get what they want. If I ever find myself in a situation like the robbery I lived through again I hope it doesn't involve one of those crazy people that just don't care about others. They will not hesitate to shoot you for some money and/or drugs.
I am not a "gun person" so to speak but I do know my way around a handgun and if my life is on the line and I have access to one you can bet your ass I will use it. And it isn't about shooting to kill or any notion of being a hero or Superman. It is a means of survival. You shoot to stop the threat PERIOD. Any firearms self defense class will teach you that!
I hope I am never in a situation like that at work or at home again. It makes me nervous just thinking about what can happen to you as you work in an open pharmacy. Look at how the convenience stores are on lock down now especially at night. They have figured out that employee safety requires extreme steps. Pharmacies will eventually move in a similar direction out of necessity. We can't take any chances anymore. Silent alarms won't do shit for me as a gunman opens fire on me and my staff.
That OK RPh did cross the line I think but it is still an open case. He might serve jail time for his actions though. But in his defense things happen very quickly in those situations. I also think that if you are taking a gun out and going in to attempt to rob a business you are volunteering to put YOURSELF at risk of harm and possibly death for your actions. It also is my understanding though that now that that OK case they are looking at the possibility that the first shot would have killed that young man anyway. If that can be proven the issue of the follow up shots is less damaging for that pharmacist's case. What struck me about that case was the fact that the mother of the young robber to be that was killed called her son a "hero" in a televised interview. I'm sorry but attempting to rob a pharmacy and threatening the lives of the pharmacy staff makes you far less than a hero. And what is a young man of that age doing with a gun and robbing a pharmacy in the first place? It is a sad case all around.
Get a gun shoved in your face twice for cash and then maybe you can make an educated opinion.
Regardless if you are pro or anti-gun, the fact still remains that if some douchebag idiot comes into your store with intent to hurt or kill someone under you (be it a tech, a clerk, the janitor), its your responsibility as a good human to protect them if you are able to. Even if you have to throw promethazine DM bottles at their face to give the other employees time to flee.
Unless your pharmacy school teaches a mind-reading class and you damn well know the person holding the gun to your face isn't going to pull the trigger on you or someone else on his way out, you should do whatever the fuck you can to protect yourself and your staff.
The whole "A woman... no, a co-worker is dead and another pregnant co-worker is injured because someone decided to fight back and one could argue that part of the reason for this is the actions of the co-worker." bit is bullshit. As said above, the criminal could very well have intended to execute everyone in that store on his way out, and the employee just SAVED a bunch of lives that day. You dont know what these criminals are going to do, they are irrational, emotional driven, and generally bad people (hence why they are robbing a pharmacy). That statement right there shows me that you have NO idea about guns, and have NOT been in any sort of similar situation where you honestly believe that some crackhead is going to take your life.
I'm armed at my store, the other pharmacists are armed as well. If you want to live in fear and bend over to every criminal who comes in and flashes something that looks like a gun, then so be it, its your store. However realize that its a very slippery slope and eventually you'll find yourself in a black body bag as your C-2 safe is being hauled in the back of a pontiac.
Anonymous,
For the most part, I think most people who are robbing you are waving a gun to scare you and get you to comply, and have no intent to shoot you. They just want to get what they came there for and leave without being caught. I think the victim presenting his own gun, and both of them standing there aiming at each other only escalates the situation. If you want to arm yourself and protect your staff and your property, fine. But you better be ready to pull that gun out and fire off a kill shot before the perp even knows you are packing. Otherwise, you may end up with a situation like this one. Yes, a crackhead is crazy and desperate, but with a gun pointing back at him, he may act even crazier.
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